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Enoch, the Book
email: dan@servantsofyahshua.com
Enoch, Genesis 5:23
The Scroll of Enoch is said, by its defenders, to predate our Savior by
4,000 years. They get this knowledge from the sages of Judaism handed
down to the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews – or so it is written.
According to these sources, the Sages and the ancient Pharisees, some of whom,
if you can believe the Jewish Fables, predate even Adam. Supposedly Adam
was given the Jewish traditions and truths, even the “Black Truths”, which
does, by the way, include “Black Magic” (more on this later), orally – there
was no book when Adam was given the Oral Torah. So, Enoch, comes along some 6 generations after Adam and writes
a Book? Apparently Enoch invented printing as opposed to passing his
knowledge on in the good old fashion way by word of mouth. It would not
have been a book, maybe a scroll? Even then we have no proof that the
ancients used anything but stone and clay tablets for writing. Where,
then, are these “Tablets of Enoch”? This question is the first of many common
sense questions that need to be answered and really are answered by your
own God given common sense.
Let’s follow the example of our Savior, when confronted by the Pharisees,
Scribes and Lawyers of the First Century, He would questions their position and
then demonstrate how foolish they were being, or, how they had misinterpreted
the Scriptures. Of course they soon tried to figure out ways to kill Him
because they could not answer His sound, and common sense, spiritual and
physical reasoning. You know when someone cannot answer common sense they
become emotional, excited even, and sometimes violent in plan or action.
Certainly, no one likes to be told they are wrong or that they may be deceived
and deceiving other, do they?
(2Ti 3:13) But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse,
deceiving and being deceived.
We need to stay within the parameters of Scripture as our guide, not some
dreamy idea or titillating tale of fantasy – follow the advice of our Apostles
and our Messiah.
(Eph 4:14) so that we may no longer be
children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of
doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
(Eph 5:6) Let no one deceive you with
empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the
children of disobedience.
(Titus 1:10) For there are also many unruly men, vain
talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped; men
who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for dishonest
gain’s sake.
Believers then and now were being warned about the source from which many
of the deceptions originate – “…those of the circumcision”, in other
words, the Jews. And this is the source of the Book of Enoch.
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The following article is an example of how serious the deceived and the
deceivers are about protecting the Book of Enoch. This so called Book
feed their twisted gospel concerning “fallen angels” and their intermingling
with humans. This is a gospel that actually blames the fall of man, not
on man, but on these “fallen angels”. By their gospel (good news?) man is
not at fault at all, it is the demon angels polluting the purity of mankind.
This then leads to saying our Creator is unjust in destroying all of mankind,
because man really is innocent of all charges – it is the demon angels that are
the problem. This, of course, denies the teaching of our Savior and our
Apostles, that “sin” entered the world by one man, Adam.
This article is from an internet response to an “expose” of this false
Book. The “defender” express, in the following article, an intelligent
defense of the Book of Enoch with faulty thinking and misuse of Scripture but
typifies what is being accepted as truth by so many. Here is the internet
address exposing this false book for what it is, a book of ‘fables’.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm
There is a ton of stuff at this website that I do not agree with at
all. The amount of material at this site is overwhelming and contains
truth mixed with lies. Much of what this site presents I do not agree
with at all, but this independent study by, David Stewart, is very good and
informative and from my own investigations proves to be correct in “exposing
the book of Enoch” for what it is, a book of fables. We will continue
with the “defense of Enoch” as presented in the following article and I will add
in my comments in blue font coloring.
_____________________________________________________
Re: The Book of Enoch Exposed:
The Defense:
Defender of the Book of Enoch: I’ve been receiving a lot of ignorant
comments concerning the book of Enoch from a lot of well-meaning folks out
there. A lot of their comments are taken from an article written by the
writer of jesus-is-savior.com
(Want to read it? Go to --
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm)
Defender: I am writing this article in order to
answer future questions about the book, since doing so on an individual basis
seems to be a never ending task.
I will answer the points found in jesus-is-savior.com, but before I do, I
will open my defense of Enoch with the following statements:
The book of Enoch was written about 4000 years before the birth of Christ
and also predates all the books in the bible.
Before the Old Testament, people were reading the Book of Enoch.
Servant’s Comment: There is absolutely no evidence for this statement whatsoever.
This author is just making noise, he is muttering and chirping (Isa
8:19). It is very noticeable that he cannot give one source to back this
false statement up, not one shred of Scripture to support this remark by the
Defender, not one source can be quoted from the ancients that they were reading
the Book of Enoch that, somehow, survived the Great Flood.
Defender: Point # 1 - The bible says that Enoch walked with God 365 years before God took him
alive into heaven. So are we led to believe that such a righteous man lived on
earth that long without writing something that would edify future generations?
Servant’s comment:
No, it does not say he was taken to Heaven. It says YHWH took him but to
where we are not told. Remember, our Savior, YaHshua, said no man in
Heaven, only the one that is from Heaven can go to Heaven (John 3:13), Enoch
was not from Heaven. Even in the bogus Book of Enoch states that no one
knew where Enoch was, only that he could not be found. Hum, wonder who
wrote that part of the Book of Enoch (chapter 12 of the Book of Enoch)?
Also the narrative of the Book of Enoch speaks of Enoch and tells us
about his adventures with the fallen angels, as if someone else is writing
about Enoch, it is not Enoch telling the story at all? Also, going by his
erroneous assumption that Enoch lived so many years it is only reasonable to
assume he must have written many book would then mean we would also expect to
have piles of books from Adam and Methuselah who live hundreds of years longer
than Enoch. So, where are the books of Adam? The reasoning is
faulty.
Defender: Point # 2 - The book of Enoch prophesied of the coming messiah the “Son of man” who
would be the Savior of the world. Again, about 4000 years before the birth of
Christ
Servant’s Comment: This is a pointless argument. You have to
assume without any proof at all that the book of Enoch is dated that far back.
This is not a proof of any kind for the validity of the Book of Enoch.
Defender: Point # 3 -
The contents of the Book of Enoch validate the bible,
before the bible was ever written. When I read this book, it just strengthened
my faith in God and the bible.
Servant’s Comment: So, without the Book
of Enoch your faith would be lessened? Who needs the Book of Enoch?
What purpose does it serve outside of the Scriptures we have? None., Some
teaching the false doctrine of Angels taking wives and having giant children us
the Book of Enoch to push this doctrine of lies. Why is it a pack of
lies? Because by saying this is true is to call our Savior, YaHshua, a
liar. YaHshua plainly says that angels are neither male nor female and He
also says that when we enter eternity we will be like the angels, neither
marrying nor giving in marriage. Those hanging on to the teachings of the
Book of Enoch would then be saying our Messiah and Savior is
not telling us the truth.
YaHshua says: For
in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like
God’s angels in heaven (Mat 22:30).
Defender: Point # 4
- Now, Peter & Jude both quoted favorably from the Book of Enoch and called
Enoch a prophet. That means that if the bible identifies Enoch as a prophet,
then we should expect prophesies from that prophet, in the form of writings in
which prophecies were recorded in.
Servant’s
Comment:
Rubbish. Hebrews 11:5, speaks of Enoch finding favor with YHWH through
faith and that he was “translated” to some other place, apparently out of
harm’s way. Nowhere does it say he was taken to Heaven. Let us take
a look at this in the origin of Paul’s remark to the Hebrews –
(Gen 5:24) And Enoch walked with God:
and he was not; for God took him.
When we look at the word “not” in Strong’s
Hebrew Dictionary, we find that this means he, Enoch, was no more. In
other words, God (YWHW) took Enoch’s life prematurely. The word, “took”
some want to translate as “translate” to mean “taken to Heaven”, which cannot
be and for very good reason –
(John 3:13) And no man has ascended up
to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in
heaven.
Again, to say he, Enoch, went to Heaven
would contradict what our Lord told us, and He should know. Also, the
letter to the Hebrews was written by the Apostle Paul, a man well versed in the
writings of the Jews and he makes absolutely no mention of a Book of Enoch.
The other place in the New Testament where
Enoch is mentioned is in Jude 1:14. What this verse really points out,
and is missed by most, is that the Gospel of the Coming of the Kingdom, and the
coming of YaHshua as King of Kings was preached to the sons of Adam.
(Jude 1:14) And Enoch also, the seventh
from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten
thousands of his saints”…,
Again, nowhere is there any mention of
a Book of Enoch, least of all a Book used by mankind before the Torah.
The Jewish story tellers say that the current Torah is actually a brief part of
the Oral Torah. These teachers and many teachers of the false messiah,
JESUS (He-Zeus) make up things to cover their view of the false gospel.
Jude says nothing more than Enoch, a man that found favor in the eyes of
YaHWeH, presented the true Gospel message to the sons of Adam (also called,
then, the sons of God), and they eventually so rejected and polluted this
message that no one, save Noah, held to the true message of Salvation by the
coming of our Lord. Only Noah believed. As mankind rejected the
message YaHWeH took Enoch early, putting him to sleep, saving him from what was
to come as mankind fell further and further from the truth. Then our
Savior, YaHshua, spoke of a time coming, the ‘end-days’ being like the days of
Noah. If, then, we are living in those days, or at least days so much
closer, then how do you suppose the truth will be handled in these end-days?
Defender: Point # 4 - Enoch was not quoted once, but at least 2 times by different prophets. In
the bible, all God’s prophets reaffirm one another. In the mouth of two or
three witnesses shall every word be established. (Can
we say that this is a coincidence that God tells us this verse twice in the
bible? – Deuteronomy 19:15, & 2 Corinthians 13:1)
Servant’s Comment:
This is an example of using scripture to prove your error. This is a
misapplication. For one thing the two witnesses concerning Enoch in the
New Testament only proves Enoch existed. There is not one word concerning
a Book of Enoch, a book read by the people of God before and after the Great
Flood. The witnesses then, prove Enoch lived, just as we are told in the
Genesis. Another observation ignored is that there were actually two Enochs.
(Gen 4:17) And Cain knew his wife; and
she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city,
and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
It would appear that the son of Cain was more
famous than the Enoch of Gen 5:24, a city named for him. What then leads the
defenders of the Book of Enoch to ignore the Enoch, son of Cain, to say that
this Book, if it really ever existed, was not the writings of the Son of
Cain? Nothing, absolutely – nothing at all, they just ignore the
possibility. If we say this book really did exist (for the sake of
argument) prior to the Flood and somehow survived today then who is to say it
is not the product of Cain’s son, Enoch? If we consider this, then it is
possible the Book of Enoch may have been written by the murderous side of the
Linage of Adam, not the righteous side. Again, my friends, common sense
rules here. None of this can be proven other than by speculations, day
dreams, and assumptions based on more speculations, which I think you will find
the rest of the article upon which the Defender of this Book relies,
speculations, opinion and repeating what others have said with absolutely no
proof.
Defender: Point # 5 -
If Enoch walked with God as a righteous man for 365 years as the bible stated,
then the man would of have to had been inspired by God to write what he wrote,
even more so than those who wrote the Old testament who were not as righteous
of the level of Enoch, nor lived as long as Enoch.
Speculation
Having been given all these points to begin with; I also found that the
opening of the book of Enoch begins with explaining that the book is intended
for a future & distant generation far off.
I tend to believe, we are that generation.
That would explain the book resurfacing in the 1940′s in the dead sea scrolls, along with many other books from the
bible.
Servant’s Comment:
More upside down thinking – “other books from the bible…”? Placing this
Book on an equal footing as that of the Torah or with the Book of Isaiah?
Please, to say that this book existed before the Flood or even before the birth
of YaHshua, the Christ is a sham. Just saying it does not make it so, but
this is how those who want this book of fables want you to accept it, as proof
because they say so. One astute observer noticed that the Book of Enoch
seems to be more of a Christian Book than a Jewish book. This Book of
Enoch Fables supports the Christian view as opposed to the Jewish view –
another tip off this book is actually a modern translation attempting to
support some fantastic views held and promoted as doctrine among some Christian
groups and teachers. Fact: Only a couple of fragments attributed to
the Book of Enoch were discovered at the Dead Sea Scrolls site, not a “book”,
not a “scroll”, and nothing proving this to be an accepted writing of Enoch as
a Hebrew Book. Two fragments, does not a book make. The following
presentation delivers a good collection of sources describing the origins of
the Book of Enoch, which, when the truth is known, appears to be a modern
invention in the whole and that before 1912AD it was not a Book at all, at
least, from that date back, you cannot find anything other than what we are
told and we are supposed to just believe them – whoever them, and they
are? See the following site for the list of origins.
http://http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm
Defender: Now, since the book explains the origins
of demons and the fall of certain angels that fornicated with women, that also
explains, witchcraft, drugs, and our technology and so called UFO and alien
sightings. (The book of Enoch says that the fallen angels taught humans these
things.)
We actually have an explanation for the Hindu gods, advance civilizations,
and so called “aliens from other planets”.
Now, knowing this, and knowing how the churches are being controlled,
should we wonder why the main stream churches deny and fight against the book
of Enoch?
Servant’s Comments:
The fantastic becomes even more fantastic. It was the rebel angels that
were the cause of man’s fall. The devils made me do it, excuse?
Sound familiar? So, our Creator, unjustly, destroyed all of mankind for the
sins of the fallen angel? This is what they want you to believe?
There is another dangerous teaching the Defender mentions here –
“…certain angels fornicated with women…”, and where does it say that? It
does not, unless you twist scripture to mean what you want it to say.
Why is this dangerous? If angels could
copulate with women and produce sperm which then spawns obscene half-breeds of
human and spirit angels then what our Heavenly Father did in creating a part of
Himself in the form of YaHshua, means nothing. Think about it, if angels
already had this ability to procreate from themselves then what our Heavenly
Father accomplished has little meaning. What our Heavenly Father did was
not to create a supernatural half-breed. In fact, anyone that would deny
YaHshua came in the “flesh”, totally flesh of a man, not of a god or god mix,
is of the Antichrist (1 John 4:3). He came in the flesh and not by
natural means but as a miracle. If what the story tellers present is true
then it makes our Lord’s appearance much less a miracle and just an ordinary
event that the angels of Babylonian and Greek myth have always been able to
do. The Greeks had their Olympians, gods that fornicated with human women
and the Babylonians had their gods that were all too human and others of beasts
with the heads of men. And the Jews had their tales too, about angels of
their god that came down and married human women, producing an offspring of
giants, the Nephilim.
Defender: Every program we see on TV concerning
the book of Enoch, all dismiss it & sway the audiences into not believing
in the book. We see the same exact thing in the 501c3 mainstream state
churches. People are being taught & conditioned to believe that the book is
either fake, or heresy. This is designed to keep people away from learning the
truth about fallen angels, demons, & aliens which are closely one of the same.
Servant’s Comment:
This is actually just the opposite. Most documentaries present the
subject of as fact. The media loves to present the odd and weird as fact,
not fiction. Portrayed not as fiction as least as something plausible and more
likely than not. Anyone hooked on watching documentaries concerning UFO,
Banned Bible Book, Sword of the Cross, the missing Grail, etc., knows these
things are not portrayed as stupid deceptions of crazed believers. What
does “501c3 church” means? That is the IRS code for tax exemption.
The suggestion is that churches are state run or something? This too is
not true but and expanded view of the deceived concerning conspiracy theories,
which is odd, as the author of Enoch Exposed, by David J. Stewart, is the webmaster
of just such things but even he does not buy into the Enoch conspiracy.
Defender: Now, since I have done a lot of
reading & a lot of research, I recognize the teachings of the 501c3 church
& I know when people are just quoting other people and passing it as facts.
This is what this writer from jesus-is-savior.com has done when he echoes
exactly what the 501c3 pastors teach in their state churches against Enoch.
Servant’s Comment:
This is an old ploy, to blame others for exactly what you are doing yourself.
The Defender of the Book of Enoch, like many others that like to use this
fallacious work as a source to promote and understanding of Scripture that
Scripture does not support, and in the end makes our Savior a liar and down
plays or turns the miraculous birth of our Savior into a joke. These
false teachers, like the Defender of Enoch is the snake calling everyone
else the snake.
Defender responds to David Stewart’s article: The following are his points from his article, followed by my
(Defenders) responses:
Enoch chapter 40:9 “…and the fourth, (angel) who is set over the repentance
unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
He (David S) argues: “We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the
ONLY Mediator between God and men”
My (Defender’s) response: Enoch does not say that any angel is a
mediator between God & men, therefore based on this alone; you cannot say
it contradicts the word of God. Enoch is saying that there are angles (set
over) meaning “protecting”, “watching over”, helping”, “ministering”, those
who’ll received repentance unto hope and are heirs of eternal life.
Now compare Enoch chapter 40:9 reference to Hebrews 1:14, “Are they
(angels) not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall
be heirs of salvation?
Angels are set over those who received repentance unto hope who will be
heirs of salvation. (Enoch confirms the bible) We know that angels have ranks
and leaders over them, such as Michael the archangel. It shouldn’t be difficult
to believe that the leader of this type of guarding angels for the saints is
called Phanuel.
Servant’s Comment:
A good point is made by Defender but stretching to the speculation that the
name, Phanuel is really the name of an angel of Heaven
is a bit of a stretch. This name is found nowhere in Scripture, and you
would think it would be if this angel was so important. Apparently Phanuel is not important enough to make it into
Scripture. It is more likely this name is made up by the author of the
fables of Enoch. What? Aren’t even the ancients capable of writing
fiction? Maybe 2,000 years from now someone will dig up the Harry Potter
books and use them to prove some outlandish theory about our life today?
Defender: He (David S.) argues:
”But the bible doesn’t mention any angel named Phanuel.”
My (Defender’s) response: The bible is clear that there are billions of
angels as part of God’s creation. Why on earth should we expect the bible to
name them all? He further claims that Enoch lie when he mentioned an angel by
the name of Phanuel.
Servant’s Comment:
The subject is not about all angels but about an angel of such
importance. And again, the Defender, like others, assum
the Book of Enoch is true beyond a doubt and therefore they speak of Enoch and
these fabled writings as fact. I guess Harry Potter is real too and has
magical powers. There is more proof Harry Potter was alive and roaming
around on adventures that to prove Enoch of Genesis wrote a book and that book
was being used before the Scriptures were ever written. Notice the next
remark made by the Defender of Enoch, writing as though the Book of Enoch is
proven true and reliable and as if Enoch really said these things.
My (Defender’s) response: If Enoch wanted to lie and was inspired by Satan,
he would have used a name of an angel that everyone is familiar with. Satan
knows the names of the angels; why not give Enoch a name that he knew people
would buy?
(This is further proof that the bible has not been written during this
times)
Servant’s Comment: This is
“proof”? This is the perfect example of turning fable into truth and
hoping you will buy it. After all, the Defender has bought into it, or is
a deceiver, and, perhaps, deceived himself. Giving him the benefit of
doubt, we can only hope that is true and that the Defender is not really and
agent of, well, of Satan.
Defender of the Book of Enoch: After all, Satan used the name of Gabriel as the angel who appeared to
Mohamed the Islamic prophet. Satan knew that he could not used unfamiliar names from the scriptures in order to
convince people into a new religion that resulted in Islam, so Satan took an
angel’s name from the Scriptures in order to convince many into a false
religion. On the other hand, Enoch is not a new religion, but a tool that
validates what’s written in the bible. A lot of secular & atheist sources
accuse Christians of circular reasoning because we believe only what’s in the
bible. In other words, they claim that we believe the bible to be true because
the bible says its truth. They claim this is ridiculous, so I say fine. How
about other books outside the bible that points to the bible and validate the
bible?
Servant’s Comment:
This is faulty reasoning and total speculation without proof. To assume
Satan would do the one and not the other is to underestimate the enemy.
As for circular thinking this is exactly what the Defenders of the Book of
Enoch do, they quote one another and run around in a circle to turn guessing and
speculations into their truth. Certainly, other books do do the same thing, as the Defender points out. But by
the standards used to prove the Book of Enoch as having its origins in the 6th
generation of Adam is far more difficult to prove than the Quran, by far.
Defender: At this point, there’s no further
argument from their part. So God has given us other sources outside the bible,
in order to validate the bible.
Servant’s Comment:
Actually outside sources is not need to validate the Scriptures we believers
call the Holy Bible. History proves the Bible truths by the prophetic
word. Daniel is a major proof of things foretold and history proving the
uncanny accuracy of Daniel, hundreds of years before being proven
historically. Of course there are those that do not want to accept the
Bible in any kind of historical fashion, but these are non-believers and we
should not be so concerned with what they think. The critics used to
claim Moses did not know how to write, as recent at the 1950’s, then it was found
that people in his time and area did know how to write, so the critics moved on
saying King David and Solomon were fictional characters. One day tablets
were found by the archeologist that mentioned King David, King of Israel, and
later proof that Solomon also existed. Certain, these are outside
sources, as Defender points out, but was this need to prove the Bible? Not at all. What about the Flood? The evidence
is all around us for a Flood on a worldwide scale. This leads to one of
those old saying -- “Too close to the trees to see the forest”. So, do
believers believe the Holy Bible or not? Of course they do and as more
and more external proofs affirm a believers position to the critics it means
nothing, they merely ignore the proofs and move on to the next objection.
Defender Continues: Next point the writer David J.
Stewart brings in his article:
Enoch chapter 48:1-3 …before the sun and the signs were created, before the
stars of the heaven were made, His name (The name of the son of man (Jesus) was
named before the Lord of Spirits.
He (David) argues: Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in
Heaven?
My (Defender’s) response: 1 Peter 1:20 says that
Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world.
So if Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world, then
what’s the problem with him also being named before the foundation of the
world?
I don’t see a problem with Enoch’s statement, but people who oppose Enoch’s
writing will make issues of things that are easily reconcilable with
Scriptures, & one needs to wonder if there’s a hidden agenda.
Servant’s Comment:
Whether David J. Stewart sees this or not, the Defender does not, and that is –
the Name Given to YaHshua was given to Mary and Joseph and we are told in Acts
4:12 that this Name was a name “…found among men…”, it was not a Name found in
Heaven. With this knowledge it would be reasonable to say that the
meaning and purpose of His mission as Savior would be known, of course, but the
actual naming of our Savior did not take place until that moment.
Certainly the Name was known before His birth, after all the man that led the
people of the Living God into the Land He gave them, was named YaHshua
(Joshua), a name found among men, not among angels. Okay, so you could
argue that He came in the Father’s Name, true, and that Name has existed before
time – but look, this is also a name among men, so the Name of our Heavenly
Father and our Savior has never been a secret, and that name is not JESUS,
which, ironically is pronounced as HeyZeus, by most
of the world and by the English speaking people as GeeZus,
nowhere near the Name He was given. This is one of the greatest
deceptions of all time. The Name JESUS has only been around for about 400
years. The Name of our Savior dates back to the Times of Moses.
YaHshua means, YaH is Savior, or Salvation. This Name declares the
identity of our Creator while the false name, JESUS, declares Zeus as the
healer. Something wrong with that, don’t you think?
They continue with --
Defender of the Book of Enoch: Enoch chapter 69:8-12 -- on the earth from
that day and for evermore. And the fourth was named Penemue:
he taught the 9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them
all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink
and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to 10 eternity
and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give
confirmation 11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created
exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and
righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of
them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this
power 12 it is consuming me. And the fifth was named Kasdeja:
this is he who showed the children of men all the
wicked smitings of spirits and demons, and the smitings of the embryo in the womb,
He (David J. Stewart) argues: What … man’s wisdom came from a demon named Penemue? That’s crazy! Did ink and paper cause
the fall of the human race? Whoa ..
Defender response: Again, misinterpreting what the text
actually says. The texts says that the fallen angel Penemue,
not a demon, taught them all the secrets of their (fallen angels’) wisdom, not
that men’s wisdom came from them, but fallen angelic wisdom came from them.
Servant’s Comment:
Remember the biblical account of the Tree of Knowledge, of both “good and
evil”? Here in the Book of Enoch it is discovered that it was anglic knowledge given by this good angel to men that
corrupted man. The Defender uses logic that is, well, stupid, or
deliberately misleading. Reread the Enoch verses quoted and you can see
clearly that record keeping or writing of any kind is seen as corrupting and
that that was given to me by this angel called Penemue.
You see, according to the Defender and others, it was those damned angels that
cause the fall of man. By this view, as stated before, we can see the
unjust actions of the Creator God in killing off all mankind. Making man
pay for what the angels did? Something smells in the Defender’s defense.
Defender: They (those exposing the Book of Enoch
as a fraud) continue to argue: It was Adam’s sin that brought sin into the
world (Romans 5:12); not evil literature.
My (Defender’s) response: Enoch does not mentioned at all that sin
came because of these fallen angels, he is simply explaining how the fallen
angels perverted further the human race by teaching them things that were ahead
of their times, that alone is wicked in the eyes of God because they were
intervening and mingling themselves with mankind. We can also see in chapter
69:12 which jesussaves.com conveniently left out, we can see these fallen
angels were already teaching mankind how to do abortions. This adds even more
credibility to the book of Enoch.
Servant’s
Comment: And how does this lead to the “credibility of the book”?
The reasoning passes over me, maybe the thinking is too deep or perhaps to infantile to be understood as reasonable? Angels,
fallen angels, teach mankind how to improve their sinful way to become more
sinful so God destroys all mankind, save Noah because the fallen angels are
teaching men to be violent and how to write? Defender’s logic seems to
border on the ridiculous. I understand the Defender believes the Book of
Enoch to be true but this does not make this book of fable true. Many
people believe lies and are fooled everyday by liars of all sorts and we are
just supposed to believe Defender of the Book of Enoch, and his supporters, because
he says so?
Defender: He (David) continues with: Enoch chapter 1:9 And behold! He cometh with ten
thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the
ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which
they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners
have spoken against Him.
He (David) argues: “There is no Biblical record of a “Book of Enoch.”
There is NO doubt that Enoch made these statements as Jude 1:14 confirms; but
that doesn’t necessarily mean that he authored the entire Book of Enoch (or ANY
of it for that matter). It’s a question of who copied who? “
My (Defender’s) response: That’s a weak argument, because if Jude was
quoting from Enoch who lived 4000 years before him, we can safely assume that
he quoted from text. We can safely assume this, because Peter also refers from
Enoch on 2 Peter 2:4 which reads: “For if God spared not the angels that
sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness,
to be reserved unto judgment”
Jude chapter 6 also makes references to the imprisonment of these fallen
angels in chains of darkness, reserved for judgment day.
All these are references to Enoch, which tells us the same thing, about
these particular fallen angels which were bound in chains of darkness for their
sin and were reserved for judgment.
We also know from the bible that 1/3 of Satan’s angel were cast into
the earth, not into chains of darkness in hell. So the bible itself tells us
about 2 distinct & separate groups of fallen angels. Those
who sinned with women; and those who fell with Satan during his rebellion.
So are we led to believe that Jude & Peter are quoting from
nonexistence sources?
Servant’s Comment: This is the Defender of the Book of Enoch best
defense yet. It all seems very reasonable and even makes sense. But
notice how Defender throws the bit about angels sinning with women, you know,
angels committing fornication with flesh and blood women. Scriptures,
however tells us this is not possible. The following is the principle
establishing the order of things.
(1Co 15:38-40) But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to
each kind of seed he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same:
Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another,
birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are
earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the
splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
Angels are of a different “kind” than flesh and blood man, there is no
mingling. It is a false teaching that says otherwise – even our Messiah
told us about this. Re-read Genesis 6:1-4 and you will notice, the ‘sons
of God’, assumed to be angels by the Book of Enoch crowd, “marry women”?
Angels engage in human marriage? That is a lawful thing to do but these
are supposed to be rebellious angels, against the God of all Creation, the God
that made male and female (the flesh kind) to be one in marriage. Are we
to assume the fallen angels liked this idea of marriage? Peter and Jude’s
remarks are so small in comparison to the totality of the Book of Enoch claimed
to be from pre-flood Enoch as to be no proof of the book at all. The
Jewish writings and oral traditions have been around for thousands of years and
to take two or three small quotes from them and then say it is proof of a
separate book is silly. I see the logic, but it is too shallow to support
a whole Book the size of the Book of Enoch. When you read the Book of
Enoch, if you have one, you will see it is more from a popular Christian view
than from that of the Jewish view. What Peter and Jude quote appears to
be from Jewish writings they happen to agree with but these are in no way said
to be from a particular “book”.
Defender: Then, they argue that is a matter of who copy who.
Let’s see, Jude quotes Enoch, but they want us to believe that someone who
claimed to be Enoch wrote a book after Jude, to confirm what Jude wrote?
Not to mention that the book of Enoch has been dated to prior the days of
the Old Testament, so how can one from the past copy one from the future,
unless they believe in time machines before believing what Enoch wrote.
Servant’s Comment: This is not entirely true. Certain parts of
the claimed Enoch writings were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls written in
Aramaic, not Hebrew. The dating for these fragments, as best guess is no
further back than 300 BC and these fragments do not in any way represent the
complete writings of what is called the Book of Enoch today. Much of the
writing in this Modern creation are said to have been composed sometime after
the first century AD. For more on this go to Wikipedia -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_enoch
For unknown authors to compose something they imagine and place references
from the Holy Bible within their work does not make their work, or writings,
older than their source. For example, as you will read in Wikipedia
reference, Jude quotes what came to be called reference to the writings of
Enoch but this quote can also be found in Deut 33:2
of the Holy Bible and may be the source for the unknown author whose small work
is attributed to Enoch. If I quote Dan Brown, for example, of the Angels
and Demons work and the part I quote is an observation Dan Brown makes while he
himself quotes Scripture then that part of his work may be true and aligns with
the Holy Bible as he is paraphrasing Scripture. By quoting or agreeing
with Dan Brown’s comments in his writing I would not then be putting my stamp
of approval on everything Dan Brown then writes. This happens
all the time in modern circles, one author quotes another and many times adds
that they are only agree with this one thing while the rest of the work, from
that quoted, is said to be in disagreement with everyone and everything
else. I and others have done this very thing.
Defender of the Book of Enoch: They go on with: Enoch chapter
7:12-15, “Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which
the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
He (David Stewart) argues: A “cubit” is 1.5 feet. The ark which Noah
built was 300 cubits long (Genesis 6:15). Do you mean to tell me that
some women had , children who were as tall as the ark
was long?
My (the Defender’s) response: We need to understand that women were giving
birth to what appeared to be normal children, but because of the mutation in
their DNA, these children grew up to be of enormous status.
(Keep also in mind that the cubit measurement pre-flood and post flood has
also changed) – Nevertheless, these were enormous gigantic creatures.
Servant’s Comment: I can hardly contain myself – is the Defender is
really going to go there? A long cubit has been identified as 21”
and a short cubit as 17”, both of which, it seems the ancients used.
Sometime a short cubit was the measure plus a hand width, which then amounted
to 21”. The Cubit David Stewart used in his reasonable observation was
the short cubit, 1.5’ or 17”, so he is thinking on the conservative side.
According to the fantasy Book of Enoch, the giant children of the angels
began to eat everything in sight, you know, being giants and all and so the
humans could not satisfy them anymore so these giant spawn of angels began to
eat men, so this is why our Creator had to destroy the earth. To
believe this fable is to believe the tale of Jack and the Bean stalk is true
too. These giants would have been 425 to 450 feet tall and the Defender
of the book of Enoch wants you to believe, all things are possible. Maybe
with our Creator but in the world of men, in the world of the physical all
things are not possible and giant people of that stature would be incapacitated
by their sheer size and would not survive their own weight.
The gravity of the Earth would have made such giant men
non-functional.
Defender of the Fable of the Giants says: Having said that, we need
to understand that God is bigger than the universe in which he created, so it
makes perfectly sense that his original sons, (these angels) were of enormous
height as well.
The bible tells us that these angels can take any form including the form
of a man. So I would not be surprised if they appeared as regular men to the
women they co-mingled themselves with, and end up having giants as offspring,
because that’s part of their DNA. How these angels appeared to be, does
not have anything to do with their DNA markings; thus they passed their
gigantic status to their offspring
Servant’s Comment: Now the Defender is telling us angels of God have
DNA, in credible. His reasoning is so stupid it is laughable. I
find no need to even respond to this last comment. As I said before, this
Defender is either a deceiver or totally deceived himself.
Defender continues: So if Enoch tells us that these giants were 450
feet in height that would definitely qualify it to be called a giant. 9-12 feet
tall is just that, tall.
So it’s very possible that during the pre-flood era God had to
destroy everything contaminated with these giants in order to preserve not only
the earth, but mankind.
Now, having hybrids of 450 feet in height can definitely explain the
ancient pyramids, which one block alone has an average weight of 2.5 tons.
A few individuals of this status wouldn’t have had any problems building
something like the pyramids, Stonehenge, the Great Wall of China, or any of the
gigantic statues found in eastern island. Now, since the bible tell us that
there were giants also after the flood, we need to ask ourselves why in the
book of Joshua, the people described themselves as grasshoppers in comparison
to the giants?
Servant’s Comment: The Great Wall of China? Really?
This upside down reasoning by the Defender of the Book of Enoch is to weird and hard to respond to. Common sense logic
tells you how wrong this defending of this book of fables is. The more
the Defender tries to defend the Book of Enoch the dumber and dumber it
gets. I know, we are not supposed to call people stupid and dumb, then
again, maybe more of us should break that rule and expose those stupid enough
to think we are stupid enough to believe their fables and fantasies, all under
the disguise of being religious – in credible.
(Eph 5:11) Have nothing to do with the
fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
(2Ti 3:13) … while evil men and
impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
(1Ti 4:1-2) The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will
abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have
been seared as with a hot iron.
(Mat 24:11) and many false
prophets(teachers) will appear and deceive many people.
(Rom 16:17-18) I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause
divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you
have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our
Lord the Christ, but their own appetites (lusts). By smooth talk and flattery
they deceive the minds of naďve people.
These and other verses of instructions from our Savior, YaHshua and His
Apostles tell us the right way to go and it is not into the fantasy world of
teachers raised on video games and Sci-Fi movies trying to rewrite Biblical
History.
Defender Continues: If these giants would have been as tall as Enoch
described them to be, I would say that, that would definitely make a normal
human look like a grass hopper in comparison.
Servant’s Comment: Defender is referencing the spies that went into
the land of the Philistines and came back and exaggerated about the stature of
the people living there. Only Joshua and Caleb told the truth.
Because of this Israel was returned to the desert to live for a full generation
because the people were afraid to move into the land YaHWeH had given
them. 40 years later all of that generation had died, except for Joshua
(YaHshua0 and Caleb. Joshua (YaHshua) then led the people into the land
of these giants only to find they were not giants after all and under the
command of Joshua (YaHshua) they defeated the Philistines and the Canaanites
and there is not record of having to deal with anything resembling a giant
until well after Israel was established in the land, and then it was only on
family and the maximum height that we are given for these giants was 10 feet,
nowhere near 450 feet. This is a very poor defense when we let common
sense rule. Maybe in the 40 years Israel wandered the desert country the
450 foot giants got on space ships and flew off to a different galaxy, far, far
away?
Defender Continues his fantasy: I will also like to add, that
Enoch mentions these giants sinning against the animals. We know in the bible
that God ordered everything after its own kind, but in the book of Enoch we
learn something that men is currently doing in our time, which is the splicing
of different species.
Servant’s Comment: Here is some more dreaming and made up
stuff. Yes, science is involved in cloning, but this is still after its
kind. The thing men have done in attempting to combine different species
has failed, they have not made combined two different “kind” and made something
else, like a half man and dog. Even if men were successful in doing such
a thing it does not mean there were Giant sons of angels, 450 tall roaming the
Earth. Imagine, a football field is 300 feet in length, these Giants of
Enoch were half again that length. Again, they would have been too big to
function, even the dinosaurs would have been small
compared to them. A fable, pure and simple.
Defender Continues: Since Enoch explains that these giants were doing
these things back then; that could definitely explain the existence of the
dinosaurs which were also gigantic creatures.
Servant’s Comment: Here is a good example of jumping to conclusions
from a previous speculation and turning it into fact. This is a trick the
evolutionist use in trying to prove their case for the evolution of
species. First you make a suggestion, then say
it must be true and so if it is true then this or that is true too – when it is
all based on a speculation. Defender points out that the Giants were
sinning against animals and turns this into “genetic DNA coding”?
No, what the fabled Book tell us is that the Giants
began eating all of the animals, just like in a fairy tale book.
Defender Continues: The bible tells us that God had to destroy even
the animals, but we also see that he preserved certain animals. I then submit
that God only preserved his creation, & killed the dinosaurs with the flood
as science now confirms.
The Giants made the dinosaurs? And where does it say that?
Defender continues with More Speculations and Fantasy: Jesus then
warns us that conditions prior to his return will resemble to those during
Noah’s times. We can see that with the age of DNA manipulation & secret
underground DNA black projects, Jesus assumed that we would know the things
spoken in the book of Enoch, in order to discern the times.
The writer of Jesussaves.com (David J. Stewart) who wrote the anti Enoch article also states that a horse cannot
interbreed with a fish. That’s an excellent observation! However, men
knowledgeable in DNA splicing can interbreed them, creating monsters.
This same knowledge, the fallen angels had in order to mingle themselves
with the seed of men. The knowledge was then passed to their offspring the
giants, and they continue their wickedness interbreeding animals, resulting in
what we came to know as mythological creatures.
Servant’s Comments: Again with the over the top speculations and
adding to the fabled story of Enoch. The Defender is adding to the
Enoch tale with wild assumptions as to what our Savior may or may not have
thought. One thing is certain, YaHshua, our
Savior did not quote Enoch. Yes, a couple of Apostles did to make a
point, but they made no reference to any Giants and only referenced material
agreeing with Scripture already written. The Book of Enoch is
actually 5 books from different origins and questionable authors. Some of
these books (chapters) are dated around 1100 AD, not where near the pre-flood
date the Defenders of the Book of Enoch want you and me to believe.
Defender talking: If we are led to believe as the writer of
jesussaves.com want us to believe, that would leave us with more questions than
answers. But if we applied the bible with what Enoch tells us, then that
answers a lot of question concerning things that the world just classifies as
mysteries or mythology.
Usually the people who are anti Enoch, they all
happened to belong to a 501c3 church organization, which are nothing more than
corporations of the government, meaning “state controlled churches” & this
is where they get their limited knowledge from.
Servant’s Comments: This is so much dribble and nonsense as the
Defender sees a conspiracy no one else sees. Just saying it does not make
it so. Government controlled Churches? Okay, which ones, all of
them, all of the tax exempt churches are actually controlled by our
anti-religious Federal Government? In America you can say anything you
want, but in the coming Kingdom of our Savior every man will be held
accountable for every carless word that comes out of the mouth.
(Mat 12:36) But I tell you that
men will have to give account on the day of judgment
for every careless word they have spoken.
It is not I that judge the Defender or defenders of the Book of Enoch and
other apocryphal material, and say things without proof and contrary to the
Word of God, no, it is the Word of our Lord that does the judging, I am merely
the messenger quoting our Lord’s words, not mine.
Defender, more careless words: State controlled churches have a government
agenda, and they want to control what you believe & what they don’t want
you to believe.
Although a lot of state churches speak a lot of truth, we need to
understand that poison is composed of 99% nutritional value and just 1% toxic.
We all know that the 1% is the one responsible for doing the killing found in
the poison.
That’s why Jesus said that a little leaven leavened the whole lump.
Servant’s Comment: This is an old trick, the pot calling the kettle
black, or accusing others of the sin you are guilty of. By reversing the accusations that should be applied to the self,
instead accusing others of your sin. This is a self-righteous
approach.
Defender: This is why I don’t trust 501c3 state churches who sold the
flock of Jesus in exchange of tax write offs, & who also trade it the
headship of Jesus, for that of the state.
I am saying this because #1 is the truth, and because I see a lot of people
who go by whatever these 501c3 pastors say, and they
pass it as truth.
The bible tells us that it would be the Holy Spirit who will guide us &
teach us all things. If we let 501c3 government agents teach us instead, they
will lead us astray.
Either on purpose, or out of ignorance, but astray we will go nevertheless
if we listen to these people who have sold out for a few bucks in their income
tax return.
Having said all that, some may argue. If God wanted the book of Enoch in
the bible it would have been in the bible.
The fact is that it used to be part of the bible and God did use wicked
evil people to remove it from it, doing his will & fulfilling prophesy,
because after all Enoch prophesied that the book was intended for a future,
far, & distant generation. So God himself hid the book until the appointed
time. We can see God doing the same thing in the book of Daniel, when he asks
Daniel through an angel to seal certain things until the time of the end.
Daniel 12:9
Servant’s Comment: “The fact is that it (Book of Enoch) used to be
part of the Bible”? This is an outright lie. This
book nor any part of it was ever part of or compiled as part of the Hebrew
Bible by either the Jews/Hebrew or Christians of any century. The
argument for the myth tellers and fable adherents is that this Book of fantasy
was part of Jewish mysticism from before Moses. They say this with no
proof whatsoever, only the Jews of the mystical side of Judaism saying
so. This is actually the source of the collection of writings that became
called the Book of Enoch around 1100 AD and accepted by the Jewish church of
Ethiopia as true. Now some misdirected Christians are latching on to it
for reasons of their own. Everyone loves a good fantasy, I guess, but to
call a fantasy, a made up story (fiction) true is another thing, indeed.
(2Pe 2:2-3) Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the
way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit
you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging
over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
When these story tellers stand before our Lord they are going to have a lot
of explaining to do. It is not small thing to make things up, or to
promote tall tales as fact because some people like to hear such fantasies.
Defender: This is my defense for the Book of Enoch and everything
around us makes more sense with it, than without it because it fills the gaps
that the bible leave us with.
It’s like a piece of a puzzle was taken out from the bible, and when you
put it back, suddenly it all makes sense.
THE END!
Servant’s Comment: The supposed holes are filled by the present Bible
today, we have not need of a fantasy book which, by the way, was rejected by
the composers of the Hebrew Scriptures, we call the Holy Bible and rejected by
the inspired canon we know as the New Testament, Christian writings.
If you take the time to study the Holy Bible you will see this, a little
here and a little there, as the holes are filled by the Scriptures explaining
themselves. Something’s we are meant to know, other things are for the
future unveiling at the return of our Lord, YaHshua. Many things the
Defender thinks are filled in by the False Book of Enoch are the product of men
making things up and most have no place in the Salvation plan.
The great harm in believing these fables is that it destroys
the coming of our Lord the first time, in the Flesh. And it makes our
Savior out to be a liar, when He tells us that angels are neither male nor
female, and that they do not marry. Yet, the defenders of the Book of
Enoch insist the book is true in that angels did marry human women and had sex
with them as they posed as men. This makes the coming of our Lord in the
flesh, as a man, no big deal, angels have been doing
this all along. This is ludicrous and borders on true blaspheme of the
Holy Spirit. The Book of Enoch, as presented today, is
an apocryphal work from several unknown authors – please read the history of
this work of fantasy at -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_enoch -- and see for yourself this work does have an origin and it is not from
6,000 years ago. Another site listing a string of comments and
discoveries concerning this work of Fantasy is -- http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm -- and, of course, the source by David J. Stewart: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm
(Mat 22:30) At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be
given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (YaHshua
speaking)
(Gal 1:8-9) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a
gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally
condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody
is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally
condemned!
Some teach the gospel of angels as opposed to the Gospel of the coming
Kingdom – the coming of our Lord YaHshua as King of Kings. The Book of
Enoch, in the light of this, means nothing.